Topic: Need Opinions: Can I add a Puffer to a Tank???

[GJN]

I see we have a few comedians on this forum    and even some who think that their opinion is the only valid opinion, regardless of evidence shown to be contrary.

As for me - - I think common sense will tell most people that a fish in a confined aquarium will not grow to the same size as a fish in the wild that is living in it's natural habitat. 

Thanks to all of you for your humorous, expertise, and not so expertise opinions!!

[stilllearnin]

I think common sense will tell most people that a fish in a confined aquarium will not grow to the same size as a fish in the wild that is living in it's natural habitat.

Since you disagree with me, the department of natural resources , the florida fish co-op and most people who show or breed  cichlids...

Care to explain the reasoning behind that? It may be interesting or new information.

Use your fish as an example
 

I have a similar size Arican Cichlid tank with predominantly Blue Zebras that can get 5"-6" at maturity

Fishbase lists all (species sold as) blue zebras as reaching 4.4" or less (based on wild averages)

So it would seem your own fish prove fish grow larger in captivity? But you don't belive they do ?

regardless of evidence shown to be contrary

Quality matters

and when a webpage, cites a place as it's referance and contradicts size by half , doesn't that seem odd ? 


I'm not an "expert" with expertise advice,theres too much to learn to be an "expert" but I'm involved in this hobby enough  , that I know enough  ,definately enough to belive proof and science over wrong info given in a store or found on a webpage




Take my input or leave it,it's up to you,thats what forums are for 
But you might want to revist sites your saying contradict  and have a look around

go back to that badmans site and read the oscar profile 

The eggs are colored to match their environment and adhesive and are laid in the open, on a rock or a large leaf.

Find one person here who's had oscar eggs colored to match the environment ,in Thousands of spawns,no matter what the environment looked like all my eggs looked the same

check the green terror profile and you'll see a profile on a mislabeled fish - the same one fish stores mislabel and people belive - same thing for severum   



Go to the other -  wetpets site
Check out  fenestratum - perfect for the size issue

males may reach to around 30 centimetres

 

I've imported  "38-40 cm" <-- as offered that came in slightly larger.

in the aquarium....
males reach around 25 centimetres

There is one (maybe two) members on this forum with larger males and females  If Benz sees this post I know he currently has a 31cm or larger male,in an aquarium 


and what is

Amphilophus sp (Red Devil)

 

The species is labiatus and has been such since 1864 when Gunther  revised froebelii   

again quality matters

Info  from me (or here in general) might not be 100% perfect but it's not almost 150 years outdated either   

This is how myths in this hobby stay alive  Show people  facts and the still clinge to what they've read or heard no matter if it's right or wrong,until those who know give up 

[Maddy mad man]

GJN - it's good that you jone dus here at WC and yes a few of us like to share a joke.  However when giving advice it is generally very sincere and i have to tell you Stilllearnin is probably the most knowledgeable person I know regarding new world cichlids.  Quite simply there isnt much he doesnt know, and if he doesnt know he will find out for you.  I'm not saying that he's 100% right 100% of the time, but on the cases when he isnt sure or is guessing he makes that quite clear and isnt into pretence of any kind.

Perhaps you didnt mean it but your 'tone' in your last post wasnt very kind to those who have taken the time to try and help you.  If you had no intention of listening then quite simply you should have listened to the LFS or bought yourself a good book or two.  Personally I have many books but have learnt far more from these people than I ever would from any book.  These people are not only giving you factual info they are sharing their experiences.

And just in regard to Stilllearnin again - check out some of his photos and information he provides on other threads or visit his website - cjexotics.

I believe an apology might be in order.

[tracey]

I see we have a few comedians on this forum 

Ya, we have a few that like to have a wee crack from time to time..... all in good fun though 

(Make sure it stays in good fun, ppl, all of you!!!)

But I don't think it's necessarily the gallon capacity but the tank dimensions that are important when thinking about such things. As you stated earlier, a tank that is only 13" wide would limit your 14" Oscar from turning around (although he could still do it). So in a situation like that where you have a 14" Oscar, I'd also look for a wider tank and keep maybe only one Oscar of that size in such a tank.

Since tank dimensions are directly related to the gallonage of a tank (gallonage, is that a word?  ) then it stands to reason that one follows the other, and that rather than recommending a 48 x 16 x 13 tank for an Oscar, its much easier to say a 55 gallon tank, since those are the most common dimensions for that size tank 

Me personally, I'm a member of a number of forums, including Aquamojo and Aquatic Predators among others.  I have the utmost respect for Mojo and CichlidScene, and would trust their opinions over anyones, and I class Stilllearnin in the same category.  Of all the ppl that I can ask questions of, when it comes to cichlids, those three are, in my humble opinion, the best.  You'd do very well for yourself as well as your fish to at least think over his advice and some of the other things that he's said. 

[JC]

As for me - - I think common sense will tell most people that a fish in a confined aquarium will not grow to the same size as a fish in the wild that is living in it's natural habitat. 

You calling us comedians but you suport a claim like that?    ROFL    Sorry but I find that incredibly silly. That's as if you were sayign that if you were to put a newborn child in a cradle and leave it in that cradle (while properly takign care of most of it's other fundamental needs ) that child would forever remain the size of a newborn.   Are you not seeing the lack of logic in this?   

I can see having a hard time detaching oneself to old thought beliefs, but you really gotta think things through in a logical and scientific manner. Fish are no different than other living organisms and if lacking in proper care, space, etc, they will develop the same problems of developmental deformities  such as skeletal malformation, organ degeneration, facial deformities, and many other secondary illnesses due to stunting and bone deformity.

[altaaffe]

GJN,

If the little joke I posted caused you offence, then I apologise.    It wasn't meant against you but just a general quip to lighten the mood, if you notice my avatar picture shows my pet Dalmatian so the dog analogies did really appeal to me.

I personally have followed the advise of the others here on the posts I have placed and on reading posts that ppl placed prior to me joining this site, the senior members here ARE very knowledgable and you'll get a lot worse advice elsewhere.

[fnesr]

I agree 100% on JC's points about an animal automatically having a max size, be they fish, human or spaniel.


(unless that's how they make miniature ponies in which case I may be swayed )

[Gerry]

Learning can be fun and it can be fun learning.

A little lightheartedness will not change the advice given, but makes the forum not only a place for help and advice, but a place to visit and look to see what you can do to help and at the same time enjoy your stay.

It wasn't meant against you but just a general quip to lighten the mood,

Exactly my point

GJN, you are visiting many sites and it is up to you to take from them what you will, but I don't think you should be using the opinion from one to be argumentative and disrespectful on another.
Forums are about personal opinions and experience, it's up to you to decide what one to believe.

[GJN]

WOW - - It looks like I raised a few members' blood pressure here

My comments about opinions is valid: There are many opinions out there regarding fish growth/size in natural vs. man made environments.  Some of the members here are now seemingly going to extremes in defending their fellow members. I especially like the one who is now making comparisons between a baby (human being) left in cradle and fish growth.

Hey - - I appreciate all the opinions out there and take them all into consideration. I'm not the one making statements that my opinion is the only valid opinion and that all other sources and/or opinions are not valid or good.

Thanks for all the opinions everyone - - even the lighthearted humorous ones. 

[JC]

Well you're certainly entitled to your opinion and sure my human infant example was kind of off in it's timing (really I hadn't read the entire thread thoroughly before I threw that in there and it was more regarding undersized tank as I had misinterpreted the "confined environment" statement). Sure, it might seem whacked, but if you want a simpler example, look at a wolf in teh wild, then go to a quality zoo exhibit, or even check out the animals under the care for professional trainers for movies and that. 98% of times, the human raised animals will out weigh and outgrow the wild animals. Why's that do you think? Why should fish be different? It's not so much a matter of opinion as a matter of scientific fact and hands on experience.

[fnesr]

There's no opinion involved in talking max size, growth etc. only science. I think you have "peoples opinion on the subject" mixed up with "their knowledge of the subject".

I appreciate all the opinions out there and take them all into consideration.

You take any opinion into consideration even if it is rediculous and unviable? 


Bourbon comes from a goat.

[Ezekial]

WOW - - It looks like I raised a few members' blood pressure here

Doesn't appear to me anyone is angry at this point yet.  To be honest i'm surprised this thread hasn't produced more personal attacks. 

GJN, you have received a fair number of "opinions" here.  You are correct that it is your choice what to accept and use in your fish keeping practice and what not to.  Take the advice or leave it, all of our fish will remain healthy and well cared for either way.

Based on your responses and the attitude portrayed I am beginning to believe this thread is now more about trying to start a little trouble.  With that in mind i am locking it.  I do not see any further benefit from discussing this further.