Topic: ok discus does come under aMERICAN RIGHT?

[Alex]

i would like to know, what would the optimum size, height, lighting level, substrate, equipment and all other things you think i might need to know about discus to succesfully keep and breed them.

I am looking to have a 5 foot long and 2 foot width by how ever much i want depth discus tank. I want to hold at least 20 of them so i need all the info possible about them plz. and i know you guys are extreamly good about helping and submitting all that i would need to know

So plzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz help

Alex

p.s it going to be a long project of mine

[Adam]

You could probably get away with 20 or so in a 6'x2'x2' or 2.5' tank, which equates to 180 or 225 gallons respectively.  I would tend to agree that a the 5' tank is probably a little small for a group that size.  If you have the tank and so that is definitely the tank you are going to use then I would suggest cutting your numbers to around 8-10.  I kept my group of 6 in an 80 gallon and it just ended up being way to small after I got them in there.  You are only allowing each adult discus approx. 7.5 gallons per fish in the tank you are proposing.  Even in the largest tank scenario I gave you above you are only giving each fish 11.25 gallons of water.  Also on the note of the tank I would strongly suggest you get the tank drilled with overflows so you can set up a serious wet/dry filtration system.  They need very clean water, and this will help to facilitate that.

Even though Discus like angelfish will enjoy a taller tank they will still spend the majority of their time hovering around their driftwood.  In the wild large colonies of discus live in this way.  The dominant fish will live up amongst the roots and driftwood with less and less dominant fish being further and further from the "safe" area.  So the more dominant the fish is the more it will hang around the drift wood and decorations in the tank, with the less dominant fish being forced out into open "unprotected" areas. So you will want to invest in some really nice pieces of drift wood IME.  They also enjoy planted tanks but I would stick to primarily tall large leafed plants like amazon swords that will shade the bottom of the tank from the bright light that will be needed to grow the plants.  Giving you the best of both world, a dimmer tank, and the shelter and shade provided by the live plants, along with the nutrient export benefits.

They like warm acidic "tannin stained" water.  So RO/DI water will be very benificial to keeping your water stable in the low ph ranges that you will want.  Peat moss is a good addition to the filter body for its ph lowering ability as well as the tea color it will give the water, which will relax and calm the discus.  Some owners don't like the look of it, but the fish prosper in it.  Also the water temp should be around 82 vs 78 for most other cichlids.

[Alex]

yh i changed my mind about the whole tank size thing, its going to be 5 foot length, 3 foot width and 5 foot high. i did a rough calculation and it gives me 445.5 english gallons. Would that be enough?

And sorry if it sounds idiotic but what does RO/DI mean? Sorry never came across that term b4. And what types of filtration would you recomemend? Also lighting. I know you got a good brain for all that adam.

ALex

[Adam]

 

yh i changed my mind about the whole tank size thing, its going to be 5 foot length, 3 foot width and 5 foot high. i did a rough calculation and it gives me 445.5 english gallons. Would that be enough?

And sorry if it sounds idiotic but what does RO/DI mean? Sorry never came across that term b4. And what types of filtration would you recomemend? Also lighting. I know you got a good brain for all that adam.

ALex

I think you are going to find that a tank matching the size and dimensions you just gave is going to run you around $6-8,000  to have constructed.  Just as an estimate I think you would need probably around 2" acrylic to make this safe... and I would forget glass all together since a tank like that made of glass would probably weigh close to a 800-1000 lbs.  Even in acrylic its likely to weigh around 5-600 lbs.  The taller a tank is the thicker the glass or acrylic has to be to withstand the pressure of the water pushing out against it.  The taller the tank the more pressure.  I wouldnt recommend going any taller then 36" in height.  You would be much much safer swapping those measurements and making the tank 5'x5'x3'.  But even a tank like that is going to kick your wallet right in the nuts...

RO/DI= Reverse Osmosis & De-Ionization.  Its a way of filtering out all of the dissolved solids/minerals/calcium etc in your water so you end up with just H2O nothing else.  From there you can buffer the water back to the pH you want with either some tap water or commercially available buffers.  Kent makes some really good ones for both saltwater and freshwater applications.  This way you can control ph, hardness etc without worrying about fluctuations caused by water with too many buffers in it.  If you try and adjust the water just with products like "ph up" or "ph down"  Your ph can change fairly quickly over a day or two depending on the chemistry of your tap water.

For filtration as I mentioned before I would get the drilled with internal overflows and run a wet/dry.  On a tank the size your talking about its going to be completely ineffective to try and use HOB or canister filters to get the appropriate flow.  You're probably going to need to get a pool or pond pump to achieve the 2500-4000 gph turn over to get you up to 10x an hour.  When you get to that stage let me know and I can help you choose one, I used to install big saltwater tanks so I am used to plumbing these into tanks.

For lighting it really depends on if you want plants or not.  If not you can go with NO fluorescents, if you do with the height of the tank youre looking at I would go with T5's or a combination of t5 and Metal Halide lighting  Somewhat similar to what you would want for a reef tank just because the deeper the water is the less light penetrates to the bottom where your plants will be.

[Alex]

yh i bought a discus book yesterday and its a really good one. I think i might change the height to 4 foot and increase the length to 6 foot. there is this 'team' that regulary build tanks bespoke and it will cost me about £600 to make it. Im just in contemplation about what size and stuff i want ect. so im looking at prices and stuff. i am going to ask the company who is going to amke the tank if they can also build a cabinet and hood for it also. I am not going to buy it off one of the main tank builders like juwel or such they would charge a hell of alot more than i can get it.

Do you think i should get a sump tank? and how would i connect a uv system to my tank? I have never got one before are they pretty easy to install? An dwhat prices ( english wise) would i expect it to be?


Cheers for help so far

Alex

[Adam]

600 for a 4' tall tank    Thats ridiculously low!!  Here in the US that is well below even cost of the materials to make the tank, obviously I'm in the wrong country for fish tanks lol.  What are they going to make it out of? glass or acrylic?  I'd roughly estimate just the cost of materials alone for a tank like that to be around $3000-3500US(thats for 5-6 sheets of 1" acrylic)

For the internal overflow, it should look like this:
Have whoever is building the tank drill the tank for bulkheads.  And if they are doing the tank for so cheap see if the will make you a wet/dry filter that is appropriately sized to the tank.  I would go between 1/3 and 1/2 the volume of the tank for your sump in an ideal world.  You dont want to go too small because when the power goes out some water will continue to drain from the tank to the sump until the water level gets down to the bottom of the teeth on the overflow which in a tank as large as you are talking about could be as much as 10-15 gallons of water, so there has to be room for that water in the sump just in case.  If you can get the tank for 600 then I have no idea what the sump would run but I am sure it would be less then then the tank.

Plumbing a UV into the system will be very easy.  The key is to get one that is rated for the tank you have.  The larger units, for like ponds and things will probably be more along the lines of what you will need for that tank.  Make sure you dont exceed the maximum GPH rated on the UV, it will still pass more water then what it says.  But if the water passed to quickly over the bulb then it will be ineffective because it wont have enough contact time.

[Adam]

BTW just did the math on this, and you will need to have room in your sump for 18 gallons of water.  Thats assuming a tank that is 6'x3' with 1.5"(approx) teeth in the overflow.  From the top of the teeth to the bottom of the teeth will account for those 18 gallons.

[Alex]

um yes they can drill holes, create sumps, wiers ( what are weirs?) and All tanks sold are brand new, never used and are manufactured using new Pilkingtons float glass. Pilkington is a big name glass maker over here in the u.k.

They also said they will help advise on the filtration. This is what they said 'We drill holes, build sumps, fit weirs, manufacture racks for Aquatic shops and breeding facilities. We can polish edges, bend glass for bowfronts, make vivariums for reptiles and advise on suitable specification for filtration etc. Whatever your requirement please contact us for advice.' I think that is a very good company. They can also build the stand and canopy probably to hold what ever lighting i may require. I think i should go for some metal halids and whats a t5? never really gone high spec with my lighting just got a flourecent and that was enough i thought.

Alex

[Alex]

oh and this is there e-bay site. its in .co.uk. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260115060620&ssPageName=MERC_VI_RSCC_Pr2_PcY_BIN_Stores_IT&refitem=260115056944&itemcount=2&refwidgetloc=active_view_item&usedrule1=StoreCatToStoreCat&usedrule2=CrossSell_LogicX&refwidgettype=cross_promot_widget

thought u might wanna have a looksies.

Alex

[Adam]

Have they actually quoted you on a 4' tall tank?  The tank you posted a link for is only 20" tall, which requires significantly thinner glass then a tank over twice that height.

A weir is a another name for a baffle.  They are installed in sumps to direct flow in a way that minimizes or eliminates bubbles from passing into the chamber where the pump is.

T5 is a type of high output flourescent, the large diameter flours are T12, the slightly more energy efficient bulbs are T8.  The smaller the number following the T the smaller the diameter of the bulb, and the more lumens per watt you will produce.  There are also T6 available but they dont seem to be nearly as popular in the aquarium trade.

If the tank you end up with is between 24 and 30 inches I would consider metal halides if you really want to grow plants, or a beefy T5 system(like 6 or 8 bulbs).  Either should work fine.  Power Compacts would work as well but T5 will give you slightly more lumen per watt then a PC.

[altaaffe]

I suspect it will be a tad more than £600 Alex, they (same site) had a tank at 3 ft high recently that was going for over £2000, I would check with them direct and get quotes before going any further.  (Can't remember whether it was 6x3x3 or 8x3x3)

Also with a tank that deep, give consideration to how you are going to clean it as a lot of commercially available gravel vacs, algae scrapers, etc over here are suited to about 3' max.

PS.  Adam, I suspect that you are in the right place for tanks, every time you lot in the states talk about prices in $$, I tend to use the same figure (or near) in ££.

[Alex]

i did say roughly, i am trying to get in contct with them but its proving difficult atm. its not a question of money its just i want to know how much its going to cost.

ALex

[Alex]

Gerry, i know it might be a bit of a cheeky question but can you pay them a visit one day and ask them for an e-mail address. I dont want you to clear your schedue for it but if your nearby of got a bit of spare time, can you? Would definately be most appreciated.

Alex

p.s on a look back and some measuring up i think a 5 foot tank would be too tall to put in my house so i think a 3 foot would be sufficient after all. I think i didnt really take in account of the stand its going to be on.

[Adam]

Well one thing to consider is if you can actually afford a 5' tall tank (which I still maintain will be ridiculously expensive) you would just put it on a shorter stand.  All you would need to make sure is that you have adequate clearance for the sump, but the sump probably wont be taller then 18" so a 24" stand would suffice which would put your tank top at around 7'.  It would make it extremely difficult to clean, but should give you around a foot or so of clearance between the roof and the top of the tank.  Or another solution is to put the sump off to the side, behind or elsewhere so that the tank would only sit maybe a foot off the ground.  There is always a way around the height issue if you really wanted to.

[jones57742]

Alex:

I have stayed out of this until now but "how long are your arms"?

I did not factor "this minor point!!" into my thinking when I purchased my 30" deep tank.

(I would have bought it anyway to raise angels to full adult size but arm length is a critical element in the procurement decision for fish tanks.)

TR

BTW (and the following is very approximate)
For your 3'x5'x5' tank
The glass panels' thickness = 64mm (2.5") at a minimum.  At these thickness' the weight of glass panels become a factor in the required thickness due to the amorphous nature of the glass.