Topic: High nitrates

[mrbigfish]

nitrates are off the chart killed my little O, silver dollar, raphael, and pictus ok so far, any suggestions? Did back to back 30% water changes still sky high. amonia, nitrite ok, ph a little low . this is my 55gal.

[Stormbringer]

dammm mate  really sorry to hear about the O
have you been vacuming the gravel/sand
has somthing died and is polutting the water
could add some tuffa rock to help buffer ph it dissolves in acidic water
daft question mate sorry to ask it tho but did you do nitrate test right ? (reason i asked is i wasnt doing test right for a while)

[Alex]

have you cleaned the filter recently?

done something out of the norm?

I dunno really.

alex

[Stormbringer]

if it was down to a filter clean or somthing i'd expect ammonia and nitrite to show up mate

[tracey]

I'd test your tap water.  It's possible that you have high nitrates there which will be adding to what develops in your tank between water changes.  I've heard of ppl having nitrates of over 80ppm in their tap water.

[Alex]

just making a surgestion   

[Stormbringer]

might be worth checking

[Adam]

You mention that Nitrates are high, and told us you did immediate water changes, but what is your regular maintenance routine like?  This is why I recommend weekly nitrate testing until you get a clear picture as to how fast your tank produces nitrates.  That will tell you how many and how large you need to make your water changes in order to stay ahead of nitrate production.  If your tank is fairly well stocked, you will need to do weekly water changes of at least 30% to keep up with normal cichlid waste production.  If it is lightly stocked you can usually get away with 25% weekly.  If you feed heavily or have a heavily stocked tank I would suggest twice weekly 30-40% changes.

I would also do what Tracey recommended.  Aside from straight nitrates in the water which can come from agricultural run off, either from livestock manure, or crop fertilizers.  The other source of "nitrates" in your tap water can be in the form of Chloramine.  Chloramine is a chemical combination of chlorine and ammonia, which is much more stable ie wont off-gas like regular chlorine will in 24 hours.  Sometimes it will take as much as a month to off-gas on its own, so leaving water out over night will not work with this kind of municipal water. When you use de-chlor products on Chloramine though, you will neutralize the chlorine aspect of the bond, but that will free the ammonia into the water.  And as we all know ammonia degrades to nitrates when it hits your filter.  So in effect in a mature tank, Chloramine virtually instantly translates into a nitrate boost with every water change.  Check with your local water utility company to see if they are using chloramine vs chlorine.

Some natural resources to remove nitrates from your water are denitrating coils.  They can be tricky to tune, and some require feedings with a carbon source like alcohol, or sugar, or sulfur feedings.  They can be effective tools in fighting nitrates if hooked up and tuned right, but many casual hobbyists dont have the time or money to fiddle with them and prefer to simply change more water.  The other option is to set up a "refugium" where you can safely grow plants away from the destructive forces of your cichlids.  Fast growing plants like Elodea aka anacharis are extremely effective at nutrient export
 

[mrbigfish]

I must admit I had not checked water in a very long time as things seemed fine. Brutis was in the tank for over a year with a lone silver dollar. Only fed them once a day and changed 25% of the water every 2-3 weeks. Now I'm wondering if the nitrates and not some bug was slowly poisoning him. I have a pretty good test kit I think. Tests for ph, ph high range, amonia, nitrites and nitrates. I have seen test strips for chloramine. I wonder how long the liquuids in the tesat kits stay good under noirmal conditions, meaning a little warmer in the summer. I need to look for an expiration date. I changed the poly-fil in the penguin 400 about every 3 monthe and it was never really dirty, I am also running a whisper 300 for some extra mechanical filtration. Has anybody ever used nitrasorb or a Tetra brand product that is supposed to contain nitrate absorbing granules. Suffice to say that I will be checking water weekly as a matter of course, got lazy I guess and think it may have cost Brutis his life.

[Stormbringer]

ouch
i know the granules you mean bud the tetra 1,s  i suppose they work but you still have to clean the gravel  i just combine water gravel clean in 1
if you havnt been keeping track of nitrates that could be the case  fish build up a tollerance to it  but add a new fish and it dies  the old fish appear to be  ok but they are being poisened

[mrbigfish]

I forgot to mention that I did 2 back to back water changes over the w/e and took everything out of the tank before gravel vacd.

[Stormbringer]

just keep up the water changes  and gravel vaccing  dailly if you can mate  they will start to drop 
when they get to normal you can add another O then
but do a test on the tapwater as well just n case  your adding rather than removing

[Adam]

I am extremely hesitant to recommend using any kind of chemical filtration that replaces normal tank maintenance.  All chemical medias have a limit life span after which point they stop working, or slow down their effectiveness dramatically, and its hard to pin point when that day will come.  So eventually I have to think you would find yourself in much the same situation you are in now, or spending a great deal more money on the tank to replace these medias on a regular basis.  If you want to add something that will naturally handle nitrates biologically that is another story as these work through living bacteria or plants and will continue to serve you permanently as long as you dont abuse them.  There are plans for DIY de-nitrator coils out there if you dont want the expense of a commercially produced unit.  They are extremely simple devices, but as I mentioned before can be tricky to tune, since the water should only be moving through the device at around 1-2 drops a second.

Everyone is quick to claim that nitrates are not that bad for your fish, and while it is true that ammonia and nitrites will kill your fish in a matter of hours vs months.  Nitrates are equally bad for your fish.  It puts additional strain on the body, and organs that takes time to manifest itself.  Its kind of like you could say that smoking isnt that bad for you because it generally takes 20-30 years to manifest into a cancer or emphysema, or heart disease.  But its still better if you dont at all.  In fact I would almost be comfortable only owning a nitrate kit.  Because newbie errors aside (like over feeding, over stocking, or over cleaning a filter) your ammonia and nitrite should never spike even during the cycle period.  If done correctly the only test result you will ever get a positive result on is a nitrate kit, and nitrates tell you when you need to do maintenance.

[Stormbringer]

dont say that Adam i smoke 
but as usual you hit the nail on the head mate 

[moneygetter1]

I forgot to mention that I did 2 back to back water changes over the w/e and took everything out of the tank before gravel vacd.

Doing two 30% water changes back to back doesn't remove 60% of your nitrates so I would do 1 large 60% change to help get them down assuming your water supply is not part of your problem.

  I agree!! You said your readings were 'off the chart', so it's going to require multiple W/C's of 50% or better to bring the water into the readable test range. Then once you get it down to say 10ppm or less, you can guage how long it takes for it to rise & set your maint. schedule accordingly. Testing your water supply is paramount. Acceptable 'drinking water' standards for nitrate can be as high as 40+ppm (EPA 2006 US). Most will be lower but you need to know your starting point. It'll take a 'minute' to get it all together,but once you do, it'll work out fine. Almost forgot, monitor that feeding schedule.  Good luck,  "T"