Topic: Is it ethical

[mrbigfish]

do you think it's ethical to breed convicts specifically to feed the fry to an Oscar? I would like to feed my O some live food but we all know about feeders. I am not sure how I feel one way or the other about the topic.

[Gerry]

It's a moral choice

[tracey]

Ethics are more of a personal thing than something that can be advised on by others    Personally, this is what I feel about it:

1.  I don't believe that Oscars shoudl be fed live fish as in the wild, live fish makes up less than 1% of their diet.  I don't believe, given the massive range of other quality foods and the ability to make your own Oscar food, that live fish serve any benefit to the fish.

2.  I have no problems with feeding live fish to those fish who's wild diet consists mainly of other fish.  I occasionally feed Convicts and other small fish to my Arowana, Clown Knife and Indonesian Dat.  All of these fish in the wild would eat other smaller fish as a major part of their diet, 50% or about.  That being said, I've also perservered with them and trained all of them to eat pellets, home made foods, shrimp and fish fillets.

[Stormbringer]

personally i dont see any need to feed your O live fish as i think it can make them agressive and can lead them to thinking any fish in tank is food  , however if you have cons and they are breeding you could cull them properly and feed them dead to the O  or you could then blend them into a fish food recipe but  dead before blended tho urrrgggh what a thought lol ,my O's the only live foods they get are worms and insects but i do use a fish based recipe food for them  

posted same time as Tracey

[callen]

Ethics are more of a personal thing than something that can be advised on by others    Personally, this is what I feel about it:

1.  I don't believe that Oscars shoudl be fed live fish as in the wild, live fish makes up less than 1% of their diet.  I don't believe, given the massive range of other quality foods and the ability to make your own Oscar food, that live fish serve any benefit to the fish.

2.  I have no problems with feeding live fish to those fish who's wild diet consists mainly of other fish.  I occasionally feed Convicts and other small fish to my Arowana, Clown Knife and Indonesian Dat.  All of these fish in the wild would eat other smaller fish as a major part of their diet, 50% or about.  That being said, I've also perservered with them and trained all of them to eat pellets, home made foods, shrimp and fish fillets.

Well said!!

Posted same time as Storm

[Vern]

Yup! What they said.   

[Ezekial]

In general terms I don't have any problem with raising live food to feed to something else.  If I did I'd have to be a Vegan (is that spelled right?) 

That said I agree with Tracey on this point:

1.  I don't believe that Oscars should be fed live fish as in the wild, live fish makes up less than 1% of their diet.  I don't believe, given the massive range of other quality foods and the ability to make your own Oscar food, that live fish serve any benefit to the fish.

Regarding O's specifically I think along those same lines.  If you have convicts that breed I'd keep a brood occasionally to feed the O's but the rest of the time would just suck up the eggs to keep the numbers down.  Or Alan's idea is a good one, to add them to a recipe you can feed later. 

[Dan]

I agree that it's a personal choice on the individual owner, and to me there is no right and wrong answer.  That being said,  I agree with the others in not feeding live fish to Oscars or any other fish. There are so many different foods that are so much healthier for them.  I am a big supporter of staying away from feeders.  However, as I said beofre, to me it's up to the individual owner and there really isnt a right or wrong on it.

Tracey pretty much covered it. 

[johnl]

I don't think that ethics enters into this at all as humans we breed other animals for food constantly. It is how most of us survive. We also breed them for experimentation. We also think nothing of killing insects. I think the real question is whether or not live fish is a dietary requirement for O's. They are just not needed and even home bread feeders can transmit disease to other fish. I just don't understand why anyone would take the chance.

The diet of an oscar in the wild is comprised mostly of insects and plants. I do think as well that feeders promote aggression. There are too many minuses to feeders to make it worth while.

[mrbigfish]

Thanks all, that's why I'm here to get the opinions of others and the reasons for those opinions. Was not aware of O's wild diet. was probably looking at when he goes on another food strike. So just to let you all know, I'm not going to raise cons to feeed to my O. May try some worms in the spring and some frozen stuff from LFS, although the way I have been told that will make more of a mess than he makes wilt the sticks that are his staple.

[Ezekial]

There is no getting around an O making a mess with his food.  He's like a perennial 2 year old at the dinner table. 

O's in the wild are opportunistic eaters.  They will eat what is available so if some fish happens to just be swimming by and not paying attention the O will go for it but he won't expend a ton of energy chasing one.  Remember in the wild the prey fish would have more of an advantage with more space and more hiding places. 

[callen]

O's also will eat in the wild foods from veggies, fruit, nuts, incest, crustaceans to small fish.

You can try feeding him...
Meaty Foods

Pellets
Shrimp
Krill (if freeze dry be sure to soak it in some tank water first to not cause swelling in the stomach)
Scallops
Clams
Squid
Crayfish
Crab & lobster
Fish - Cod, salmon, silver-sides, minnows, flounder. haddock, tuna just to name a few
Bloodworms
Brine shrimp
mysis shrimp
snails
**Beefheart and meats from warmblooded animals

Insects & Worms

Insect Larvae
Crickets
Meal Worms
Earthworms
Wax worms
(Always be careful they have not been exposed to any chemicals)

Veggies, Fruits & Nuts

Peas (frozen right out of the bag...no need to de-shell them)
Algae wafers
Zucchini
Squashes
Carrot's
Garlic
Mango's
Orange's
Pear's
Bananas
Papaya's
Peach's
Grapes
Spinach and leafy lettuce (not iceberg)
Peanuts
Pecan's

Feeding your fish many of these foods when they are younger will help not to have a picky eater when they are older.

**Just a note on beefheart and meats from warmblooded animals.  Most of my research showed that when the fish are younger 2-4 inches can tolerate it well but as they get bigger the fishes digestive system slows down and has a harder time breaking up the meat and possibly causing blockages and other digestive issues.  But with that said as long as a well rounded diet is given your fish should not have any problems.

Martin A. Moe states ...Fish are cold blooded and all digestion reactions takes place at 70 to 80F, the temp of aquarium water.  Thus they may not be able to efficiently digest or use the types of fats present in the flesh of warm blooded animals.  They are much better off with the flesh of animals that are similar to their normal prey.


It's always good to underfeed then over feed and always take out any uneaten food to help your water quality.

As your fish get bigger you will find you can feed every other day and or every 2-4 days.

[mrbigfish]

Thanks a million Callen, i've gotten food lists before but nothing that extensive

[Ezekial]

Callen is very wordy 

[callen]

Thanks a million Callen, i've gotten food lists before but nothing that extensive

Your welcome mrbigfish   

Callen is very wordy 

Funny man you are 

It's called being thorough and you know how I am about feeding fish    Now where is that recipe I just talked to you about