Topic: loss of firemouth

[dr. cichlidae]

Hello all. I am so glad I found this site, and have learned so so much since. I now have a question I recently (3 months ago) set up a 55g w/1-5"oscar , 1-1.5"green terror,1-2" Jack Dempsey 1-6"Pleco and until yesterday 1-2"Firemouth. I work nights and when I got home yesterday morning I found my firemouth dead. Upon close inspection of the corpse I saw no exterior damage, so I assume he didn't get beat up and killed. And according to those stupid test strips, from what I can tell all water parameters are fine. And  the others seem to be fine. The FM was the bully of the tank and protected his castle very well. Then a day or so ago he seemed to abandon his castle and just hung out in the middle of the tank. I didn't think much about it because he was eating and didn't seem distressed. Then I found him dead. Can anyone please give me some ideas on what could have possibly gone wrong? btw I do realize that a 55 is small for what I have but I have plans to build a 100g soon so all will be fine.:'

[Dale]

Sorry to hear that mate.
If you can, post your water tests, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, PH. It will help everyone to sort you out allot quicker.
Could be the result of another fish getting the better of him, but you prob would have noticed some chasing at least if that were the case.
Get those water results posted and the guys here will do all they can for you. Also describe any unusual behavior coming from the other fish if any.    

[dr. cichlidae]

Well, as I said all I have to test the water with are the strips and so I don't have specific numbers for parameters. But as far as I could tell everything is where it is supposed to be. As for the others the jd seems to be abit more aggresive than before the fm died in that he chases the gt quite abit. but other than that all is the same. I did do a 20% water change after removing the fm corpse just to be on the safe side. planning on another water change this weekend. Also can anyone suggest a brand name of a good test kit to use that will give me more spcific info on parameters.

[Dale]

If space is tight your going to get agro. I get a bit of chasing in my set up so I'm going to be upgrading soon. JD's can be naughty, so can GT's.
   If he was fine the day before, with no signs of stress or bullying i.e ripped fins, hiding etc you may be looking at disease or bad water quality, hard to say without the facts though.
I use "API FRESH WATER,  master test kit" you've got your nitrite, ammonia, nitrate, PH, and PH HIGH test kit in one. Cost me about twenty five quid but worth every penny.   

[dr. cichlidae]

Cool i just figured out that i can post from my phone. anyway i hope a dollar is less than a quid LOL i will be doing some shopping this payday. let you know what i come up with. soon as i figure out how to post picks i will 'cause i'm really proud of what i have done. well not the firemouth part but the rest is nice

[dr. cichlidae]

I just talked to a friend who has a 110g saltwater and he told me that since well water (which i use)  has alot of iron in it and that could be what my problem is. what is your opinion? and is there something i can use to remove the iron from my water?

[Gerry]

Dechlorinators can neutralize some metals in the water.

Your fish most likely died from aggression than poisoning as it seemed fine and eating before the sudden demise.

You have fish there that are far more aggressive than the FM was and with space limited would be fighting over it. JD's like a cave to defend and it looks like your FM was pushed out of his.

Can you tell us your filtration type and flow,,water change routine of how much and how often.

i hope a dollar is less than a quid LOL

No, A quid is around $1.75 last I read, but a liquid kit could save you fish costs in the long run

[dr. cichlidae]

I have a fluval 350 and change water at 50% every 3 to 4 weeks. it doesn't make sense that it was aggresion that killed him since he showed no signs of it what so ever.  (unless they gave  him a heart  attack) no torn fins and every scale was intact. the jd had his own place of security and no one has taken over the fm's cave since his demise.

[Gerry]

A blow can damage internal organs with a visible sign so can't be ruled out.

Don't think your changing water often enough as 3 - 4 weeks seems long

For filtration and water care read This

[Ezekial]

Did you cycle your tank before introducing fish?  I'm not sure this isn't water quality issues as I don't trust the test strips and you are overstocked and your maintainance is not often enough.  Those things together would make me think your tank water can't be perfect.  It's possible the FM had some health issues anyway and whatever is going on in your tank was enough to affect him and not the others.  Or it could be aggression too.  Stress from aggression can weaken a fish's immune system making them more susceptible to disease.  This can happen without any outward signs. 

[dr. cichlidae]

As for cycling the tank, I did let the water circulate and filter for a couple weeks before putting fish in it. but not so sure of what the defination of cycling is, or the proper way to do it. Also, after reading several posts on using carbon in filters I have removed all the carbon from my filter and replaced it with a water purifying gravel. I am also posting a couple of pics I took with my phone. will try and post more later.

[dr. cichlidae]

 :-\crappy pic huh?

[Dale]

He looked nice mate. A shame
In simple terms, cycling your tank means that when you very first fill it with fresh dechlorinated water there aren't the bacteria living in the filter that need to be there. It's the bacteria that "filter" the water. They turn ammonia produced from  
fish urine and gills into "nitrite" ( which is also harmful to fish, you want none of this, same with ammonia) then they turn nitrite into "nitrate" which is what your left with and why we have to keep on top of water changes. High nitrates mean a dirty tank, but are also pushed up by over feeding and/or uneaten food decaying in the water and fish poo.
Two weeks isn't really long enough from scratch. I don't know what the others would suggest but I've always left mine for 6 weeks before adding fish. Don't worry about it, not allot of people realize this to start with.  

[Ezekial]

If you just had the water circulating for 2 weeks with nothing in the tank you didn't cycle it.  The bacteria you want to populate in your tank need some type of food source.  Fish waste, fish breathing, or food will provide it or you can just dump ammonia in the tank while it's cycling.  This tells me your tank is likely cycling now and that means you will get an ammonia spike and a nitrite spike, both of which can kill fish quickly. 

Is there anywhere you can take some water to get it tested if you don't have a good test kit?  Some LFS will do it but if they use strips then it's still suspect.  Personally i'd be doing 50% water changes every other day until you know what the water parameters are. 


Check out this link for cycling a tank:  http://www.theoscarspot.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=2091

[dr. cichlidae]

Ok i have a 25 gal tank that has been set up for 3 and a half months. how can i use this to help my 55 get where it needs to be?