Topic: Discus

[Katt]

All are looking good, but I just love that  Agassi.

[Stormbringer]

whole tank is coming on a treat mate 

[mrbigfish]

I must agree that tank looks great. How many types of discus you got in there Gerry?

[Gerry]

3 types 5 fish 

[Gerry]

Lost this after it got jammed at filter intake


The one that started all this too. 

[AquaCare]

I'm really sorry to hear that Gerry. Bad news is that a discus won't get jammed on a filter intake (at least not one with a strainer on it) unless something has weakened it. Might just be the picture, but now you've got me looking really closely. looks like a tiny spot of cloud on the eye. The eyes are really key to knowing what's going on with a discus, check your water. pH and and or hardness is what I'd go after first. My apologies, but I've not been keeping good track of what you've got going with the co2. If you've been using carbonate or alkaline buffer to try and balance the carbonic acid from the co2, you may have overdone it. Sorry I'm just taking guesses, but with 9 whatever hours between us it's pretty tough to be online at the same time given our schedules. My pH runs about 6.2 during the day (with the co2 on) and about 6.8 at night (with the co2 off). In my case with a GH of 7 and a KH of 4 that means the pH of the water is actually about 6.5. I'm going to try and find my handy dandy chart (it's got to be in a box somewhere) that I got from Steve Hampton that does the math for us, but it isn't an average, it just happens to be in my case. Remember, carbonic acid doesn't have the same effect on fish as say sulfuric acid which is the main ingredient in the pH down products. Carbonic acid is in this case a byproduct of the co2 injection, but in nature it's nothing more the the end product of natural plant matter breakdown and or plants lack of photo synthesis at night (simplified). pH, being  a measure of hydrogen ions attached to the water molecule, some things will cause detachment lowering pH, and others will not (carbonic acid), or in fact cause more to attach (alkaline buffer/coral for example). In the meantime, while I try and find my stuff, take a really good look at the eyes of the rest of the discus (look into thern eyens, is the way my little grand daughter puts it ). They should be bright and shiny, if you notice any spots or if they're dull, put in a pretty healthy airstone (to outgas the added co2), shut off the co2 for 48 hours, and then measure the pH, GH, and KH. That'll give you a pretty good idea of what it actually is. Sorry if I'm sitting here preaching to the choir, but it's that doggone 9 hour lag thing.... Better safe than sorry I didn't jump in and try to help. Hopefully, I'm just seeing things in the picture and it's just an unexplained small animal death...

[Gerry]

Sorry I wasn't clear it was not in the pipe and more between the pipe and cork hiding it.

That picture is when I first got him around October the 6th and he was in a non co2 tank with not to clean glass 

I buffer my water to a Kh of 2.5 - 3 ( 1 out the tap)and Ph is 6.6 right after the co2 goes off at night. Have a Co2 tester in the tank and also test using Kh and Ph chart and my Co2 is usually around 17.

Glad of the input and am far from the choir as this is a new thing for me. all help is welcome 

[mrbigfish]

Sorry to hear that Gerry.

[AquaCare]

Whew! I'm so glad to hear that's all it was, and it sounds like you've got a good handle on the co2. The trouble with these little boogers is that things can go south in such a hurry, I just didn't want to take any chances and then feel bad about sitting on my hands later. I'll relate a little story of my own, which explains why I get exciited/worried on short notice. This has been years ago, but one day I noticed one of the big discus looking a little 'funny'. Now I was about to head to the airport (3.5 miles away) to pick up some fish, so I thought to myself that I'd better check the water params when I got back to make sure everything was ok. By the time I got to the airport (about 15 minutes) I got a call from my wife telling me that all 6 discus were doing the 'death spiral' but the dither fish were fine. I had her net 'em up, dump them in the nearest available tank (temp and params be danged) and I headed back. When I got there they were PO'd from being scooped and plopped but upright and breathing, and the other fish in their tank were just fine. To make a long story shorter, apparently the tank had built up a anaerobic bacteria bubble under one of the pieces of bogwood and one of the plecos disturbed it probably just shortly before I noticed the discus looking 'funny'. pH bottomed out, nitrate spiked, and the dissolved o2 dropped drastically all in a matter of minutes. Now in a 'regular tank' with 'regular fish', this sort of thing happens all the time, but since other fish aren't so fussy, the aquarium balances itself back out, the water gets changed, and nobody knows it ever happened. With discus... well... Which is why the most paranoid discus keepers do 90% daily water changes. I don't, but I know people that do.

Anyhow, I'm just happy it was a nothing, I'll try not to jump too quickly next time...

Scott

[Gerry]

No your fine, I still learned from your post what your Kh is. I was a bit scared to make it to high as I believed they liked next to nothing in the water.

Did a big 80% WC today and have not buffered the water up as the Ph is 6.8. Was thinking of sticking with the standard tap Kh, but very little buffer at 1 tank is 1.5 just now.

other discus have nice clear eyes and fat little bellies.

[AquaCare]

As long as it's stable, I wouldn't buffer a thing. That's right in the safety zone where it should be, and if it 'aint broke, don't fix it.

[Gerry]

Thought low Kh was a Ph crash risk with co2?

be good if I can keep the tap as I hate playing around with it.

[AquaCare]

No your fine, I still learned from your post what your Kh is. I was a bit scared to make it to high as I believed they liked next to nothing in the water.

Did a big 80% WC today and have not buffered the water up as the Ph is 6.8. Was thinking of sticking with the standard tap Kh, but very little buffer at 1 tank is 1.5 just now.

other discus have nice clear eyes and fat little bellies.

You're right, they like next to nothing in the water. So the question becomes, do you want to raise discus, or production line plant growth. What I do is adjust the co2 down to match the KH, as opposed to upping the KH so I can inject more co2. That way I have nice healthy steady growing plants, and happy discus all at the same time. The trade off is you won't get the instant gratification of big plant growth that you'll see in some co2 injected tanks, but you'll end up with big discus that are as little hassle as you can expect with those guys.

Thought low Kh was a Ph crash risk with co2?

be good if I can keep the tap as I hate playing around with it.

It is only if you're trying to cram more co2 into the water column than it can hold. Which is what most folks who have the emphasis on growing plants with fish as a decoration, as opposed to the other way around, which is what you and I are doing. I'd let things settle for a few days, and if the pH is staying nice and stable after your 80% change, don't touch the regulator on that bottle, let the plants grow at a 'normal' albeit faster than a non-injected tank rate.

[Gerry]

sweet

I want the plants to grow but not like 100MPH, so I'm happy to keep the co2 to around 15ppm instead of the 30 the heavy plant growers go for.
I'm basically happy if the plants make steady growth and don't die.

Been growing steady with out any ferts so I'll stick with that so I know the discus are safe.

[Katt]

So sorry you lost the little guy..