Topic: Fresh Start x2

[tracey]

I apologize, bad day yesterday, and my last post was blunter than it should have been 

I really do think though, that you need to have a serious rethink on your stocking, and I think you're seeing that in the responses you've posted from that other website.

Some of the fish you have will work well with each other and some will not.  You've really got three groups in there, the Malawi's, the Tanganyikans and the Peacock, who, though being a hybrid, is decended from species usually found in Lake Victoria.  If it were me, I would have a good long think about which of these groups you want to focus on.  Ocne you've decided where you want to specialize, you can look at rehoming the others and increasing your stocking levels of the fish you decide to keep.  A ratio of 1 male to 3 or 4 females is the usual recommended stocking level, as per one of those replys in your lst post, so you'll probably end up with the same number of fish, just a little more streamlined 

I have to say, I can totally understand your enthusiasm for African cichlids.  They are neat fish with great personalities and so much fun to keep.  If I hadn't been bitten by the oddball bug, I'd probably have a 180g Mbuna tank by now, instead of the weirdo's I have in the 180 at the moment 

Once we've got your stocking sorted out, you're gonna love this tank!!

[TehNonX]

No need to explain your self Tracey. I too don't appreciate negligent animal care And  I took no offense from your post. All these fish are gorgeous and I had such a hard time figuring out what I wanted.

I wanted a tank based of lake Malawi's, Due to the fact. That through my research I have noticed that Malawi Cichlids seem to have some really vibrant, salt water colours. ( If you know what I mean.)

I don't have a specific type or colour. I just wanted Cichlids. Hopefully with the most colour varitation.  I had settled on 3 types. But when I went to stock ... They didn't have what I was after. And they had shown me a tank and had said it was an African Malawi tank. I asked if they could stock my 55g for a price and they said yes. I've talked to 3 different people at the store and they assured me I was okay. But like you seen from my previous post That I don't stop at 1 resource. I try to educate my self through asking anyone and everyone what they know. And from my newly stocked tank I have found out more in the past week then I have in the months of research. :\ Sad it happened to be like this but ... Its an experience. Both for me and the fish. I WANT the best for these little guys. The LFS has expressed that it wouldn't take them back. Do you have any ideas on how to address the situation as it stands.  I wont be adding any more fish ... Considering Yes I read you have to over stock cichlids but if what I read about the stock is true. I'm in some serious Doo Doo.

They are all babies and they are all getting along great. I have so many caves they don't actually seem to fight. Except for 1 Kenyi who thinks he deserves 4 caves    When is it roughly going to start getting out of hand. Do I have weeks?Months?

I am willing to do my  best for these little guys. But ... I just spent about 600 dollars on setting this tank up to find out that its a bust. I don't have a ton of income to just poor on multiple tanks and with the LFS not willing to take them back. ( This is my own fault. 3 days to return a fish(dead) and it was a few days before a forum had got back to me )
I'm not sure what to do in this situation guys. I need help!

[tracey]

They are all babies and they are all getting along great. I have so many caves they don't actually seem to fight. Except for 1 Kenyi who thinks he deserves 4 caves    When is it roughly going to start getting out of hand. Do I have weeks?Months?

I would hope, depending on the sizes you've purchased, that it should be months rather than weeks.  If your fish are around the 1.5 to 2" mark, which I think is the normal sale size, then they are likely to be around 2 months old.  You should be able to get them to 6 months old before some of the more unpleasant characteristics start coming through.

The Peacocks and the Frontosa are the ones that are most at risk from harassment.  Your lfs may not give you the full amount you paid for them back, but will they take them back in trade for store credit?  Even if you only get a couple of dollars per fish, at least you won't have to worry about them in your tanks anymore and you'll have a little bit to put towards food or equipment.

It doesn't surprise me that the Kenyii is already being a problem.  Some fish are just born bad    I'm at work at the moment, so can't stay on long.  I'll pop back in later tonight to add some more to this.

[altaaffe]

As said by Tracey, unfortunately the LFS has given you some very bad advice. 
It might be worth a courteous visit to explain that it has been pointed out that the Mbuna in the tank are likely to cause havoc and harrass the other inmates and point out that all you want to do is exchange the members that are not suitable (peacocks, Frontosa) for others of the types you already have.  As I pointed out earlier, you're better to have larger numbers of a couple of species than lots of different types in ones or twos.  With the Mbuna they will interbreed and you will end up with a mixed set of hybrid mbuna which can all look the same and can tend to look a bit drabber.

In the case of aggression, it depends on types and who stands up to the most belligerent fish.  Just make sure you have planty of caves and escape routes.  If you manage to nuild a couple of rock piles, what you can end up with is a balance where you have a tank owner and then kind of two subordinates who own a rock pile each.  I had this a while back and the meaner fish tended to cancel each other out and were too bust watching each other to harrass anybody else too  much.

[TehNonX]

Okay. So ... Could you please clarify, I haven't been in contact with the fish store yet. But IF in theory I can get this guys sorted out properly. Which should I take out? Which should I leave? And I searched all the Latin names for these guys ... .... Which are the Mbuna and what does Mbuna stand for or mean?

[Gerry]

Can't help much with the stocking as I don't do African cichlids but know its the different lakes they come from

[altaaffe]

Mbuna is a class of fish from Lake Malawi meaning rock dweller and are found as the name suggests near rocks.
In your list you have labs, kenyi and zebras which are all Mbuna, your tropheus are from Lake Tanganyika and I must admit I've never kept them together but most fish do not tend to stand up well against Mbuna.  Having a larger tank for mine (180g) I do have space to keep a Venustus and an Ahli in with them who put the Mbuna in their places.

The ones that definitely need to be kept away from them would be the Frontosa and the peacocks.  Most keepers will keep all peacocks or all Mbuna and Frontosa just do not mix with anything but their own kind.

Now it's up to you which group you'd prefer to keep.

[tracey]

Sorry, I never made it back to finish what I wanted to post 

As Alt said, the Peacocks and the Frontosa really to need to go.  Regardless of whether you keep the Mbuna or the Tanganyikans, those two species will not work in your tank.

Option 1:
Yellow Labs                     Increase to 5 or 6
Kenyi                             Increase to 5 or 6
Cobalt Zebras OR
OB Zebras                      Increase to 5 or 6

This leaves you with an Mbuna tank with approximately 15 to 8 fish, whcih isn't a bad stocking level for a 55 gallon tank.  Decorate with a LOT of rocks piled up to create caves in between them.  When I get home tonight I'll dig out the pics of my 55g Mbuna tank for a number of years ago so you can see what I mean by a lot of rocks.

Option 2
Tropheus moorii OR
Tropheus moorii Bula Point      Increase to 10 to 14

You'd need to pick either one or the other of your Tropheus species.  They are only separated by a regional variance, in essence they are the same species, so you definitely don't want them to hybridize.  Anything that impacts on the ability of other fishkeepers to be sure of the lineage of their fish needs to be avoided.  This is a huge problem with a lot of African and CA/SA cichlids.  Red Devils and Midas are a good example.  These days, only wild-caught RD's or Midas can be guaranteed to be pure, anything from an lfs must be assumed to be a hybrid.  That makes it so difficult for so many fishkeepers who can't afford to pay the exhorbitant prices charged for wild-caught fish.