Author Topic: Ok 1 week later, patience is thin, and....  (Read 3137 times)

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phish_luver

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Ok 1 week later, patience is thin, and....
« on: August 10, 2004, 01:09:07 PM »
My jewel and salvani's are still skiddish, hiding and hanging around the bottom...
I have treated the tank for 7 days with MelaFix, and the salvani is worse with these white spots, not fuzzy anymore. The jewel doesnt swim around happily, his colors are almost zilch, his top and bottom fins are ALWAYS straight back and his tail is stiff as a board half the time...
What am I doing wrong? Is there something I need to be doing for these guys? All the levels are fine, so its not parameters...
Any and ALL idea's would be welcomed...
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Offline loofa

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Re: Ok 1 week later, patience is thin, and....
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2004, 01:25:28 PM »
The white spots are probably ich. Did you get these fish recently? Because they might just still be getting used to the tank. It sounds like they are sick, too, by what you are describing. Whats the pH and nitrates? Those would help.

phish_luver

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Re: Ok 1 week later, patience is thin, and....
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2004, 01:49:25 PM »
They are about 3 weeks in my tank, all parameters are level, and its not ICH, Im thinking it maybe fin rot, like Domica mentioned last week...
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Offline Brenjen

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Re: Ok 1 week later, patience is thin, and....
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2004, 02:41:43 PM »
 Well Ange...it sounds like a stress problem. Fin rot is easy to distinguish from ich,do the fins look tattered & ragged with holes in them & rough edges? If so it's probably fin rot. The question is Why? There has to be a cause for the stress,if your certain the temp. is in range, the oxygen,ammonia,p.h.,nitrites,nitrates,chlorine,g.h. etc. are all in the green,it would almost certainly have to be the tank mates stressing each other out,but they should be compatible so we're back to the question....why? I know fin rot happens a lot if the parameters are too far out of wack, so .....are you sure your water test kit is still good? You might see if you can borrow another test kit or see if your lfs will test your water and see if the results match.I would also ask myself if the water is properly oxygenated. Go over your tank really well & see if there is anything rotten hidden anywhere,do 3 - 15% water changes a week & rinse out your pre-filters (if you have any) everyday,and double or even triple check parameters. It sounds to me like your overlooking something,but what?
Too small,or not too small;that is the question.

phish_luver

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Re: Ok 1 week later, patience is thin, and....
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2004, 02:55:03 PM »
Thanks Brenjen...
I have done about 10-15% changes because of the useage of Mela Fix... And yea the water levels/parameters are all good...

The salvani had the white spots on him the next day after bringing him home from the LFS, that I did NOT notice on the trip home and after placing them after acclimation...

I have tried several different times to catch him to get him into the hospital tank, but its a no go, I just get fed up LMAO Tore up my tank and still didnt catch him... He is fast, when he wants to be LOL....

I can take in a sample of the water and have them test it, but the tests I have are brand new, and I dont know what they will find that I havent already tested for...

Any idea's of what I can do for them? I tried taking pictures, but out of 52, not one of them was clear enough to show the white spots...  No rippage or missing of fin's, so thats why I told Domica last week I didnt feel it was fin rot, but a fungus, thats why I continued MelaFix treatments....

The only stress I can see is maybe 2 or 3 times a day the sals will chase each other, but they do not connect or anything, no fights and they both stay clear of the jewel... Even swim around him alot of times LOL

Thanks for all the thoughts of helping me figure this out, I just wonder if this tank is jinxed???
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Offline Brenjen

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Re: Ok 1 week later, patience is thin, and....
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2004, 03:05:08 PM »
 I agree it sounds like fungus,but I would get a second opinion on my water quality tests just to be sure ;) & be sure not to do too many water changes, you say you've done 10?.....In how many days?You shouldn't change it too frequently during treatment because you want the melafix levels in the tank to stay high during the entire course of treatment.It does dissipate,thats why you add it everyday but it doesn't all dissipate evryday.
Too small,or not too small;that is the question.

Offline loofa

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Re: Ok 1 week later, patience is thin, and....
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2004, 04:11:09 PM »
I agree it sounds like fungus,but I would get a second opinion on my water quality tests just to be sure ;) & be sure not to do too many water changes, you say you've done 10?.....In how many days?You shouldn't change it too frequently during treatment because you want the melafix levels in the tank to stay high during the entire course of treatment.It does dissipate,thats why you add it everyday but it doesn't all dissipate evryday.
Plus if you do too many water changes at one time, the bacteria in the water could deplete. That does kind of sound like fungus, but I dont know about the water parameters leading to fungus, I know it has something to do with bad water conditions.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2004, 04:13:34 PM by Loofapig »

domica23

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Re: Ok 1 week later, patience is thin, and....
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2004, 04:29:00 PM »
He contracted fungus so quickly after being brought home I would tend to say it is the stress of being placed in a new tank.

I believe that melafix wants you to complete one week of treatment before doing a 25% water change.  You might have been removing the meds. 

I would add aquarium salt at 1 Tb. per 5 gallons (dissolved first) and raise the temperature to 84.  Monitor fish carefully after increasing the temperature to make sure there is still enough oxygen in the water (no labored or heavy breathing).  Continue the melafix treatment according to the directions on the bottle. 

I hope this fixes everything!

Offline JC

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Re: Ok 1 week later, patience is thin, and....
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2004, 05:03:17 PM »
I agree with the previous replies. Sounds like there's been way overkill in water changes and not enough time for the fish to settle and make the tank their home. 10 to 15% water changes more than twice a week for fish that are new into the tank doesn't allow them to establish territory or the necessary bacteria to detoxify the water. And as previously stated about the melafix, it's not an ordinary medication that builds up as a dose. The strenght of the product does break down after awhile though some trace of it continues working at a subcutaneous level, which gets nullified by doing excessive water changes.
Im also trying to clear up what the symptoms are. You say there's white spots on the fins but not on the body. Right? I run into that now and again and it appears to be something like Ich's second cousin in law  but doesnt' seem to bother the fish in any way and usually runs it's course once the immune system kicks back into gear.  Lots of times  fish get sick when introduced into a new tank. That's because they come with lots of little critters attached to them, but most of the time will only get sick when under stress. Usually it is recommended to use a hospital tank to treat disease, but when introducing something new that gets mildly sick almost immediately, I usually call for salt, heat, and leaving it alone where it is, because another move will only increase stress for the animal and weaken it further.
I'm goign to apologize now for being too blunt or straight forward, but PhishLuvr, If your water parameters are normal, your nitrates are not excessive and all the equipment works right, leave your tank alone. The only thing you should be introducing in that tank for a whole 7 days is the test tube for your water sample. If you have an ammonia spike, it's a sign of depleted nitrifying bacteria or excessive feeding or death.  If that is the case then you should do two 20% changes in that week. However, if  the ammonia is zero, then at the end of 7 days do a 25% water change, and keep up the routine for the next week.
Fishkeeping is all about  patience and although you need to be monitoring minor changes very closely, you also need to pace yourself in how you apply the changes and actions or you'll find yourself goign downhill fast with very few satisfying results.    I apologize again to anyone if that seems like too much attitude, but still that's my opinions on why those problems are showing up, and that is also how I have dealt with similar in either my own or other close friend's experiences.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2004, 05:57:39 PM by JC »




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Offline Adam

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Re: Ok 1 week later, patience is thin, and....
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2004, 05:57:52 PM »
yeah I would relax on the tank maintenance.  Anything more then 25% a week in the first month or two is too much... unless not doing the water change to bring ammonia or nitrites down will comprimise the safety of the fish.  Course that kind of major spike is a result of other problems with care altogether.  Anyway long story short, just relax and let the tank do its thing.... treat with your melafix, do your 25% water change at the end of the week and then repeat the treatment if it still hasnt fully gone away.

phish_luver

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Re: Ok 1 week later, patience is thin, and....
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2004, 08:54:37 AM »
Lets see here....

BRENJEN~ NO NO NO I have not done 10 changes DUH Im not goofy  ;D LOL
The post says 10-15% PERCENT, and I have done that every 3 OR 4 days (meaning in a week I have done it 2 times!), when a person uses melafix, it has to be syphoned out or it sits and gets a NASTY smell....

DOMICA~ I did do 7 days of Melafix, (hence my comment I treated with Melafix for 7 days in my original post)... Also the salt, and the temp turned up, all of it, and the sals are still infected. If they have something else, I would like them to feel better, b/c I hate to look at them with these spots cause they look harmful, I mean they could be nothing, but they could be life threatening.... Thanks for the advice though....

JC~ There has NOT been an over kill b/c of water changes, geez, Im not a newbie to the aquarist world... I do feel your advice was blunt, and none of it concerning my situation, so thanks....

Thanks guys...
I will just leave it be until they miserably die, or my tank rots from something LOL

Im not meaning to sound grouchy, but I really wish that before stepping into the Koolaid jug, people would know the flavor, meaning read the original post clearly  and keep in mind, some people are more knowlegeable to know not to change tank water all at once or alot over a few days, GEEZ....  ::)  ;) ;D
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phish_luver

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Re: Ok 1 week later, patience is thin, and....
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2004, 08:56:53 AM »
ANd PS: I did have the water checked and they said that other than being a little cloudy, its fine...  ??? ??? ???
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Offline loofa

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Re: Ok 1 week later, patience is thin, and....
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2004, 10:25:57 AM »
ANd PS: I did have the water checked and they said that other than being a little cloudy, its fine...  ??? ??? ???
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Cloudiness may be due to New Tank Syndrome. Which can happen when the water is changed too much.  ;D
« Last Edit: August 11, 2004, 10:29:09 AM by Loofapig »

ezdave

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Re: Ok 1 week later, patience is thin, and....
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2004, 10:36:26 AM »
Ange,
   I know how it feels to do everything that you can think of and still not find the answer.
I had a 55 gal in my bedroom sitting on my side of the bed. My wife likes to have a fan blowing on her at night while she sleeps and I have about 11 pugs that sleep in the bed with us at night.
  The tank that I am speaking of was always very clean and tended to. I could never keep any fish alive in that tank and couldn't figure out why. Everything was perfect.
   Well I moved the tank into another location and I haven't lost another fish from that tank.
The only thing that I could figure out was that the fan was blowing dog hair into the opening of the tank and it was doing something to the fish. I don't really know what the problem was but, I do know that once the tank was moved I never had any problems with it.
  I know that this doesn't really help you much but, I just felt that I should let you know that you are not the only one that has been lost on what to do.

                                I wish you all the luck in the world with your tank and fish.
                               

Offline tracey

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Re: Ok 1 week later, patience is thin, and....
« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2004, 10:49:55 AM »
It is frustrating knowing there is a problem and not being able to figure out what the hell to do to fix it  :-\ 

This problem with the white spots came on so quickly, seems to me that the root of the problem may have been at the lfs.  Do you know how long they had been in the tank at the lfs?  Maybe they were still stressed from being moved from the supplier to the lfs tanks :-\  Then with the move into your tanks, the stress level goes up again........... *shrugs* I don't know, it's just a thought.  Could be a double dose of stress thats knocked their immune system down and they're just taking their time getting back on track.
We've been concentrating almost entirely on the salvini's here, how is the jewel doing?