Topic: Filtration

[Gerry]

 the biggest says 1500ltr Tank, But you have  to find out what the turnover in litres per hour.

I was looking at an ehiem in lfs when ordering the tank and the smallest 1 said it would do my tank size, the lfs advised me to get the bigger 1 since I was getting oscars,, I ordered it but had to go back and cancel as it only turned over 600 ltr an hour and my tank will be 280 ltr (280 x 10 = 2800).

Sorry to burst your hopes.

[JC]

when you are looking at canister filtration, a turnover of 5 times the water volume is acceptable. Canisters have much more media, the water is getting forced through it with a lot more pressure, which basically makes it much more efficient despite the lesser turnover. IF you compare the thickness of the media found in a power filter v/s the media in a canister, you'll understand what i'm talking about . 

[HyBrid]

Thanks alot everyone 
BTW can someone pls tell me exactly what a sump is...
From what i know it is a smaller tank with a filter, heater and aeration that has a pond pump to make the water flow from the main tank into the sump and out again...
Is that right?

[BobTheFish]

I turn my 600 litre african tank over 5 times an hour at the most, and it's probably more like 3 times an hour.  Since completing the cycle, I've never had any nitrite and ammonia readings, and have never lost a fish in this tank. I use an internal filter (about to be replaced with an external canister for aesthetic value) and a fluidized bed filter.  I reckon for a tank your size a FBF is the way to go, especially if you are going to keep messy cichlids.  Get two cheap canisters which you use only for mechanical and chemical filtration, and the run your FBF off of either a canister or a hidden internal filter.

Another alternative is the in-line system by Rainbow Lifegard- it should easily handle that size aquarium, though I'd consider putting some sort of pre-filter on it, or running it off of two or three internal filters with sponges taking out alot of your material waste.  With the Lifegard system you don't need heaters in your tank either.

My 2 cents worth!

Bob

[Gerry]

hhhmm thats interesting Jc...I have got a filter that turns over 1200 ltr hour and will cycle my tank just short of 5 x hour and thought I would need to add the same again...but I understand what you say about size as the canister is quite large 20 cm x20 cm x35 cm with 4 compartments.

wullie-d is seeding it just now for me in his 55 uk gal along with his own filter.

so hybrid could aim at tank volume x 5 time per hour with a canister?.

[JC]

Well he'd need a couple canisters just to reach that amount of filtratino alone. Really, that would be a big huge waste of money. Better go wiht a wet dry where you really get the most efficient volume turnover much more convenient to boot. Canisters are great but only go so far. I t hink tops to be filtered with canisters would be a 180g, after that, it would be ridiculous not to shoot for a wet dry since it's so much more efficient, cost effective and mangeable.

[HyBrid]

I reckon for a tank your size a FBF is the way to go

Another alternative is the in-line system by Rainbow Lifegard- it should easily handle that size aquarium

Hehe i really am not up to date with all this terminology... What are these?

Thanks for the suggestions guys 

[BobTheFish]

Sorry- FBF is a shortcut for fluidized bed filter- a filter that is made up of constantly flowing sand particles.  They are incredibly efficient biological filters, as long as power outages are not a problem in your area.  They are made by a number of companies, but imho the easiest to use and best is by Rainbow Lifegard, otherwise known as Pentair Plastics.  This same company makes a filter component system that is made of a series of filter compartments that are connected to each other in a line, therefore an "in-line" system.  The advantage of this is that you can add bigger or smaller components, add in extra bits and otherwise customize your system.  I have only used the FBF by this company- but I have found it really good.  I'm thinking of getting a tank around the size of the one you've got on the weay, and I'm considering the in-line system for it.  I know it wont turn the system over all those numver of times, but in my experience if a messy aquarium is turned over even two or three times an hour by an incredibly efficient filtration system, then it makes no difference to turnnig it over 5-10 times with a less efficient system.  I have run my African tank which is heavily stocked on only the FBF, which turns the tank over once an hour, and no nitrite, no ammonia, even after a fortnight.  You just have to vacuum up the poop on the bottom.

The big drawback of FBF's is that they are bad if you loose power a lot.  If you go for more than around 30 minutes-hour without water movement through the filter then they go anerobic, and produce a caustic gas or something like that, hydrogen sulfide I think.  Anyhow, mine has been off for long periods of time (about 6 hours at the longest) with no bad impact, but them I also have a back-up filter.

The other two drawbacks of FBF's are that they take a long time to cycle (up to 60 days, but less I've found if you use water from an existing tank or even squeeze the guts out of a biosponge from a cycled filter into the FBF before starting it up), and they suck oxygen out of the water at an amazing rate.  You may have to add a bubble wall or spray bar or something like that to keep the O2 levels up.

Cheers- hope this helps.

Bob

[HyBrid]

I have been looking around on the web for a while and was wandering if this filter at the top would be ok?   
And if i should also get the one at the bottom as well as the one at the top...

http://www.aquariumproducts.com.au/category59_1.htm

Thanks

[tracey]

The problem with FBF is that they only provide biological filtration, no mechanical, so you'd still have to buy something that could hold filter wool and/or fine sponges to give you some mechanical filtration as well.  You'd need to have your water going thru the mechanical filter before it hit the FBF.  Either of those filters are good for up to 200 gallons (or so they say  ) so maybe you could get away with only one, if they are as efficient as they claim.  I'm not really knowledgable enough about filters do give you a definitive recommendation, I'm severely limited on what I can get here so I have no experience with FBF's or even with wet/dry's.  Personally though, I prefer wet/dry's as they provide both types of filtration in one go, rather than having to run two filters, one for biological and one for mechanical.  FBF's are a fascinating concept, however, but I'm not sure how they'd work in a big tank for a sinlge large cichlid.  I've heard of them being used in african tanks, like the one that Bob has, but I've never heard any first hand experience from someone who's used one on a large tank with big SA or CA cichlids.  Not 100% sure that they'd keep up with the amount of waste a big predatory cichlid would produce.

[HyBrid]

Thanks for the info...
This tank is turning out to be a huge hassle and seems as though it is gonna cost a fortune 
But i'm sure it will be worth the money and time in the end 

[stilllearnin]

My input and oponion.Mostly from trial and error.

A true wet/dry is the only effecient,effective way to filter a big tank.

A fluidized bed filter is a mini version of half of a wet/dry with less media.


The rainbow lifeguard module system(s) are more of a pain then they're worth.The look nice and clean but I think they're overrated and over priced for what they do.(except the ones I've seen combined with wet/drys)
 If something simple like the rainbow modules sounds like something you'd be interested in - FIRST - Look into the ocean clear canister systems 


On a tank that big if it's not over stocked a turnover of 3-5 times per hour  with a wet/dry would keep the tank clean.

I have wet/dry's on my 300,180 setup and a large wet/dry on my 1200 gallon+ system all work better then any other type of filtration I've tried.

 This summer when I redo my fish room I will be redoing everything with wet/dry's and all my new additional tanks will be setup on wet/drys 


 Wet/dry's can also be homemade pretty cheap 

[BobTheFish]

I've different experiences with fluidized bed filters, but you do need to have an additional mechanical and chemical filter with them.  They are perfect for use with a canister or wet-dry, or with internal filters.  Their biofiltering capacity is many many times greater than wet-dry filters, and they do not suffer from dead spots.  Also, they do not need a lot of water flow to do a good job.  However, you'd be good with either one.  I personally prefer FBF's because they do not require drilling the tank, there's less risk of overflow, and you can draw the water for them fromanywhere in the aquarium, rather than just the top.  However, I have never had a sump, so I certainly don't feel 100% confident commenting on them.

My personal choice for a tank this size would be 2 mid-sized, cheapie external canisters and a Fluidized bed filter run by an internal filter with a sponge prefilter.  HOWEVER, a sump wet/dry certainly has advantages too!  Sumps can be done on the cheap, or so I read.

Let us know which way you go mate.  Don't forget, you can also go for cheap internal canister filters and do regular water changes.  It's the cheap way, but my favourite discus breeder swears by it, and she maintains more value in fish stock then I make in 10 years, so she'd know!  I've run extremely sucessful tanks this way- my standard filter is nothing more than a spongefilter driven by a powerhead.

Cheers!

Bob