Topic: 20-30 gallon African Tank

[stebo]

I want to set up a small 20-30gal desktop tank (mainly because my parents won't let me get anything bigger) and i'm open for suggestions of how to stock. Any ideas?

[fnesr]

if it was my tank, i'd try and get a 2.5' tank (25-30gals) and do a 'brichardi' single species tank.

they reach about 3-4 inches and are one of the easier tang cichlids to keep. they do require some extra care with water parameters and temp then malawi cichlids, but it is pretty easily managed if you keep up maintainance on the tank. they need hardish water with a fairly high PH (but that can be adjusted in several ways to suit them, and they are somewhat tolerable to ranges that aren't 100% ideal). 

they also don't get aggressive toward their own species when breeding and will actually assist one another as a group (including older offspring guarding the next consecutive batches of fry). this is cool as you can keep differing numbers of them together without problems if a pair forms among them. they can at times still be aggressive though toward other species if kept with them (particularly if breeding and sometimes also if the tank is understocked or tankmates are too small).

tank set-up for them looks excellent using crushed coral and fine white gravel as substraite, and also having the tank bulked up fairly heavily with rocks, as they are a fully cool fish to watch move around through caves and decor.

this link has a couple of pics of what they look like (they are available in a few other colour morphs though aswell)....

http://www.oceanlight.com/lightbox.php?sp=neolamprologus_brichardi

  anyways that's my suggestion, but you could also go with other tangs or larger malawi's.

[stebo]

Thanks alot fnesr, you've been a great help.

[stebo]

I've just had a look at some, they are very colorful and can come in yellow (like the yellow labs).
Apparently, to distinguish between male and female, on males the streamers on the fins are longer than the females, is this right? and can you tell when they're small (1" or so). I't would be good to get all males because i don't want to breed them and their fins look fantastic.
Will a bunch of males get terrotorial and fight each other?
I read the minimum tank size is 20gal, would this be for just 1 or can i have many?
If i use crushed coral or fine gravel will it get sucked up by the vacuum?
My tap water ph is neutral, can they get used to that?
How do I raise it and keep it steady if i need to? I have alkaline powder but that runs out quickly, i think there's a rock that keeps the level up high?
Can i feed the small cichlid pellets that i feed my Oscar or is there a specific food for africans?
Will they eat bloodworms/brine shrimp?
What sort of filtration do i need? (i can get fluval canister filters here)
How much of a water change each week?

Sorry about all the questions, you don't have to answer them all.  Just as much as you can, it would be a great help, thank you

[fnesr]

Apparently, to distinguish between male and female, on males the streamers on the fins are longer than the females, is this right?

thats correct, the males finage is longer, but both the males and females have fin extensions so it can still be tricky to sex them.

Will a bunch of males get terrotorial and fight each other?

i'm not really sure on that as i've never sexed them at purchase (also had a few i never sexed at all  ). i would assume they wouldn't be overly aggressive though as they typically school when kept together (somewhat like a family unit). very hard to say though what whould occur with full adult males in a tank and no mate to spawn with. when i kept them i had both males and females so can't really give you a first hand experience with that unfortunately.

I read the minimum tank size is 20gal, would this be for just 1 or can i have many?

they work best kept as groups, so you'd be better off trying to go for a 30gal if you can stretch it. minimum tank recommendations vary a lot. heaps would disagree with this, but personally i'd keep around 3-5 in 30gal.

If i use crushed coral or fine gravel will it get sucked up by the vacuum?

i actually recommended fine gravel rather then sand (which is typical for tangs) because it's abit easier to manage with vacuuming and filter set-ups. the crushed coral can be bought from LFS in different sizes like gravel is sold (fairly large peices can also be used).

My tap water ph is neutral, can they get used to that?

How do I raise it and keep it steady if i need to? I have alkaline powder but that runs out quickly, i think there's a rock that keeps the level up high?

it's best to have your water around 7.5 - 8.0 PH, things like the crushed coral can help to raise PH as well as chemical boosting if needed. there is also a range of tang cichlid salts available from LFS's that assist in getting your tank water setup for tangs.

Can i feed the small cichlid pellets that i feed my Oscar or is there a specific food for africans?

there's specific foods pellets for african cichlids in general (as there wild diet differs alot in protein etc.). there's also specialized pellets specifically for tangs that can be used, but a staple african pellet will do the job providing you assess the ingredients.

Will they eat bloodworms/brine shrimp?

yes.

What sort of filtration do i need? (i can get fluval canister filters here)

just whatever filtration you would use on an american tank should be fine. a canister would be good if you can afford one (otherwise HOB's etc.).

How much of a water change each week?

due to their size they are not big eaters so they are not really large waste producers like alot of american or large malawi cichlids. small water changes weekly of say 20% would be good. it's important that the water changes do not vary too much in temp or PH parameters though, as tangs are a little more sensitive to swings in water range.


phew, needed a coffee break there stebo  .

[stebo]

OMG thanks soo much!! dude i think you answered every question. You didn't have to, i'm sure some one else would have come and finished it off, lol. I hope you enjoyed your coffee, i'm going to the aquarium today (for Oscars tetracycline) and i'll look more into the brichardis there. Thanks again

Stebo

[Nate_N_Nicole]

Actually that is wrong both male and females have long fins, It is not a reliable sexual distinction... Although male tend to be a little bigger ( Thats the only reason the fins look longer) while females tend to be a little more well rounded...  With that said there is little you can do about sexing these guys you might be able to vent check them but there probably to small to tell the difference any how... But one good thing about these guys is they do tend to form colonies ( I have a trio now) So you could buy 3-5 of them and let nature take its course... They all may love each other or you might only end up with a trio or at the worst a pair... But sorry to say that is the only way to tell male from female.... Sorry!!!! 

as for the rest of the info.... 

Good luck!!!!

[fnesr]

Actually that is wrong both male and females have long fins, It is not a reliable sexual distinction

thats correct, the males finage is longer, but both the males and females have fin extensions so it can still be tricky to sex them.

ok i'm lost nate. did i not say they both have fin extensions?

i too have had difficulty using this trait to determine sex personally. i therefore took quite some time last night finding reliable sorces of information to 100% confirm this statement before stating that it is correct. 

allthough i agree it is very hard to visably tell with many specimens.... male Neolamprologus brichardi's finage is in fact longer

...(i can provide a multitude of reliable references and evidence to back that up if required).

bloke i think you answered every question.

i see you stumbled upon the 'd.u.d.e' auto filter stebo  .

[stebo]

yer thats wierd i wrote d.u.d.e, why does it change?

And I had a look at the brichardis today and the only ones they had were tiny albino ones. And i could tell between the males and females because the males formed there fin first. all the albinos were exactly the same size, but some of them had fin extensions, others didn't. i figured the ones with extensions were males. I don't realy like the albinos so i won't be getting them unfortunetly, but thank you every one for your help.

I did look at the desktop tanks that i want to get and they're 38L which is 10gal. So i think its too small, and he said i was limited to the amount of species i could keep in there. I remember he suggested dwarf cichlids, the albino brichardis (he called them albino princess) and he said i might be able to sqeeze a couple of yellow labs, because they are very small atm and when they get way to big i can trade them in.

I will continue this thread on "Beautiful Yellow Labs (electric yellow)" and i'll see what info i can get on them. Thanks again

[fnesr]

do a search on "shelldwellers" stebo. there's some very cool little fish you can keep in a 10gal.

...also look into 'kribensis' cichlids. i have a breeding pair of them with fry at the moment and they are great to watch (they'd be pretty cool as a desktop set-up). they are also pretty hearty and can be mixed with non-cichlid 'community type' fish, which would give you a little more room for keeping the tank active.

...they can also be kept in planted tanks which is an interesting environment to keep if you wish (bloke  ).

[stebo]

ok kool, i'll have a look. I have seen krebensis b4. and i'll look for shelldwellers

[stebo]

I had a look at the krebensis, i didn't realy like them until i saw a BLUE one. Does anyone know what they're called


PS, i saw it on google images

[Nate_N_Nicole]

fnser, don't be so defensive bud... Just pointing out that I don't believe in the finage method its impossible to sex a NEOLAMP. BRICHARDI according to the length of there fins... I don't care what resource you have found...(please don't take offense, just speaking my mind) There is no possible way to tell them apart... And I will say now what I should have said before... "just my opinion"
hopefully we cleared that up...


Anyways,
I think Shell Dwellers would be a great fit as well good suggestion... fnser!!!!

[fnesr]

i'll admit perhaps i was a bit defensive, however you did not state your opinion, you stated that the information i provided was incorrect ....

Actually that is wrong

as for the rest of the info....

i never stated in anyway that stebo would be able to use this method.

i've never sexed them at purchase (also had a few i never sexed at all ).

regardless of our opinions, this difference in the sexes is a scientific fact.

anyways lifes to short to argue such a point. (hense my offer for documented references)

 

[stebo]

well i hope thats over.

are drawf cichlids shell dwellers? because they're small and the ones at the LFS have a nice color to them. would i be able to keep a couple of those maybe? or 3 if possible